Men and Women as Friends

My parents didn't have close friendships with the opposite sex. At most there would be couple friendships that would quickly segregate themselves when they had the chance. Working relationships were allowed, but were so formal as to hardly meet the definition of "friend". Often there were also cultural expectations regarding appropriate topics for men and women to discuss. Women were not expected to be interested in weighty matters, and therefore people like my childhood pastor expressed something akin to shock when I as a college student tried to participate in an all male discussion of something theological. 

In my generation most conversations among the sexes don't limit their topics. Women can talk about any topic they have knowledge of, or ask questions about those they don't. Men, also, can talk about largely female topics and no one bats an eye. But as we have become more comfortable in seeing mixed groups I think we have discovered there are still lines that differentiate buddydom from flirting. Unfortuantely those lines vary. When we had clear distinctions between men and women it didn't matter where the lines were because we were no where close to them. 

There are many levels of male/female friendship. Let me help you understand my definitions of them

1. completely plutonic

Some examples:

     a. unattractive person can be friends with the opposite sex completely uneventfully

     b. when conversations happen only in conjunction with professional activities and never cover the personal

2. personal interest

examples

     a. Conversation has crossed from professional to personal

     b. a mutual interest has been found

     c. you just enjoy talking to this person of the opposite sex

3. intentional interest

examples

     a. a man and woman friend see each other regularly and talk about personal or interesting things

     b. a man and woman purposely schedule time to talk or do things together.

4. friends with benefits

examples

     a. pretty self explanatory, friends have sex for fun, but no exclusive relationship

5. dating

examples

     a. well, the people involved are now exclusive and the friendship has moved out of the friend zone.

Society is still for the most part used to men and women alone together being couples. Whereas it would be rude to assume the female friend that is dining with me is my partner, it is completely reasonable to assume the man accompanying me to the er with my daughter is her father. Some people take offense at this and see it as a flaw in society. I have asked and answered enough awkward adoption questions to know that I should just give people a break. Their main job is not to figure out my personal relationships, and I choose not to dwell on their choice of words. 

    

 I think it is great that we are now able to help each other with our strengths and not worry about wether we are men or women. There are some catches with this new found freedom, however. 

Studies are beginning to show us that there are differences between how the sexes view each other. It seems that women are far more able to see a relationship as plutonic. They are not nearly as concerned with sex as men. Not that that is surprising. Men, on the other hand appear to be more opportunistic. If they have a chance at sex they tend to be aware of it and willing to act on it. They are far more aware of the attractiveness of their female friends. Some people even choose who to talk to based on their appearance. Of course some avoid the attractive based on intimidation and some choose the attractive based on status. 

So that leaves an awkward boundary somewhere in the friendship continuum. How do you know whether your invitation to that guy to lunch will be seen as a great chance to be friends or an open invitation to frolic afterward? If you are truly wanting to be just good friends should you be in public together, at home alone together, and what if the attraction does cross the line? This is the zone when friendships need to have some conversations that even those in relationships try to avoid. What are your boundaries? How far will this go? 

If you have a bimonthly lunch date this may not be necessary, if you are out every weeknight with this person, you may need to see where it is going. 

Thankfully, along with the friendship taboos going out the window conversation taboos are as well. It is not a big deal to talk about any subject with any person who feels comfortable, even religion and politics. So if a friendship conversation seems necessary it doesn't have to be a big deal. But then, if you are good enough friends you very likely know the other persons character well enough to be able to understand what they hope to get from the friendship you have. 

In scouring the internet you can get plenty of advise about male female friendships. Many people still think it isn't possible. I think it depends on your definition. Of course it is no big deal to have a couple of conversations and possibly a meal out. But it is true that many people have a hard time controlling attraction, and many affairs begin from office friendships. Many people will never have close friends with the opposite sex because they can't handle it. It requires maturity and trust, which some adults never attain. 

I personally have never done well with male friendships. I was raised to believe that boys only wanted one thing, and was not very interested in giving that up. Turns out that worked well for me. Most guys who got to know me never wanted to stay friends. I would have conversations, but even a walk around the block with a guy led him to think we were dating. I mostly blame that on a religious perspective that held a clear trajectory to the alter for most cross sex friendships. Ironically the first guy that I really felt was a good friend to me I ended up marrying. Clearly I am hopeless. Marriage has been helpful however. When it is clear where my loyalties lie it is easier to relax and have a good conversation with someone just for the sake of conversation. 

For the most part I see male/female friendships as not that big of a deal. The only time I think they are considered interesting or shocking is when they are heading toward one of the boundaries that require a relationship talk. Are you doing lunch every so often? Fine. Are you conversing behind your wife/husband's back and then meeting secretly, even if there is no sex involved? That is a problem. Are you going to a concert you both want to see? Great! Are you spending the night together in the same bed. That could be a problem, or at least so close to a problem that it is not really worth doing. I mean seriously can't you sleep on the floor and give her the bed or vice versa? I think the boundaries are more important when you are married. If you are both single friends, and make a bad choice it is easier to recover with less loss, though it could still affect the status of the friendship and future friendships and relationships if you make a bad call. If you are married, your kids, your wife/husband and yourself could all suffer if you are not careful. So my thinking is, enjoy your friendships with all people but don't take unnecessary risks unless there is a clear benefit to most of the parties involved. 

These are interesting links if you want more info. By the way, if you choose to google this topic, be prepared for an onslaught of people being cynical about the possibility of male/female friendships. Like I said, it is primarily for mature adults and apparently there are a lot of immature ones out there. 

Todd likes this article about friendship, and I think it is pretty good. From Psychology Today

http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/200109/can-men-and-women-be-friends?page=2

This article sites a popular recent study that seems to indicate that men are too horny to be friends, but just look at their sample: 88 undergraduate friend pairs. Hardly representative of the population. Though, even with that bias, the results don't seem that far from correct to me, just some of the conclusions drawn from them. But you can decide for yourself.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/23/platonic-friends-men-women_n_2005709.html

NPR also talks about the above study

http://www.npr.org/blogs/monkeysee/2012/06/17/155197529/can-men-and-women-be-friends

This is a video that some college kids did. Obviously from my experience it seems accurate, but it sure does seem like they have an agenda. 

Isn't Karting Fun?

My handsome guy, Todd(in the green), and his brother Michael look at the all-imortant printouts to see who ate who's dust, and discuss future manuveurs in between heats.









So last night was ride-all-you-can-handle night. I had a few strikes against me to begin with. I was a little nervous. I always am when it comes to karting just because as I said in the moto-X post, my brain just doesn't work naturally in mechanical racing mode. I guess the stress built up over the course of the afternoon until when I got to the karting place and smelled the gas and rubber my heart was completely racing and I just about got light headed. Todd and Michael had been coming to these testosterone fests for a few weeks now, and I had heard rumors of running 12 races in an evening, but when it came to me racing and racing and racing I never realized the consequences of that scenario. I raced 4 or 5 heats, out of pride, and then I claimed my break. Todd was so sweet. He was really concerned that I have fun. The week before he went without Michael. We were talking about getting a sitter but didn't and he said that he really wished I was there at the beginning (before the thrill of the chase began, I guess) Now I was here and I was stressed. So I sat down, drank Sprite, and read "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance". Within a few deep breaths and some pages about the mysterious, intelligent and insane Phaedrus, I was ready to go. I was actually putting down some decent times for me. I was usually the slowest on the track last night (except for once), but most of the time by less than a second. At one point in the evening I had actually made the "best times today" list at number 13 out of 23. Of course more and more racers came in over the evening and by the end of the night I don't know if I was even on the list, but it was satisfying, none the less. I was the only girl racer of the evening to the best of my knowledge, though there were couple of kids ( 8 and up are allowed to race) I did see at least three other women present, most wielding cameras to mark this moment of manhood for their guy. I had mine, too, which I juggled with my helmet and neck brace.

In the end I did calm down a bit, and I was happy to see Todd have fun. I was glad he wanted me there, and I was thrilled that I wasn't a huge drag on their race. Todd even sacrificed some lap time to drive in front of me and show me the best line to take. (Very sweet, considering lap time is of the utmost importance to the male ego) Next time I will know what I am getting into. I may also set a higher goal than to have one guy slower than me in a race. Been there, done that.

Women, Men, and Moto-X

On the left Uncle Michael makes a jump. Todd tells me he cannot go quite as high as Michael, but I can't tell. Above, Evan is decked out with all his pads and gear and training wheels. He now rides without the training wheels. Nina is getting a feel for what it might be like to ride Mommy's bike.






I have been watching the X-Games. I love the feats, the obvious skill and creativity. I had asked Todd a couple days ago if there were any women's events( somewhere around the time we were watching Travis Pastrana be attended to by his Mommy). He didn't know, but I found them last night. I watched the women's super-X final, and saw Ashley Fiolek battle for the win with Jessica Patterson, finally sneaking in to stealing Jessica's line and squeaking to victory. Ashley competed with her peers, and beat them, even though she is deaf. I have great respect for those riders, especially since I putz around with riding myself, as do my oldest son Evan(since he was 5), my husband, and his brother. Michael is above, jumping on Todd's bike, in Todd's clothes. We don't have many pictures of Todd or me on our bikes. Todd is a bit self-conscious of his ability, though he looks like he is as good as Michael to me. And as for myself, I am completely not picture worthy on my bike. The last time we were at the track was the first time I really got airborne. Let me tell you, no one noticed but me. I am just happy that I am no longer afraid to ride on the grown-up track simultaneously with adults and 8-years-olds who know what they are doing.

I noticed at the end of the super-X race that Ashley won, one of the announcers was raving about the maneuver she pulled to get the lead . He said something like "You just can't teach moves like that. She drives almost like a ma...." I laughed. I don't disagree with him. I know some women would be all up in arms about such a comment. I don't pretend that riding dirtbikes is something that appeals equally to the sexes, or is excelled at the same way by both. Most of the time when we are at the track I am one of one, two or no other female riders. I have been there when some teen girls were riding who were definitely better than me. They had the teen fearlessness that I am trying to foster in my riding. But it is obvious there is not the same draw among women to be more than a 30 second girl. There is no discrimination at the track we frequent, so there must be some other reason for the lack of women. I have no delusions about men and women being the same. I also think that there is nothing demeaning in women excelling at different things than men, which is something society needs to catch up with me on. I don't compare in the least with the guys, young and old at the track. The mechanics of finding the best line and getting the most out of my bike turns into a mush of feelings and impressions in my head. I just don't look at things the way most men do. I am beginning to understand how things work, but in my way. I am very happy that the track doesn't freak me out the way it used to. I want to continue to learn how to go faster, and maybe make that big jump that I completely avoid now. Yeah, I am the slow girl on the track now, but you watch out, Ashley, I'm coming. Wait, no. But that was a nice fantasy there for a minute.